This is the story of everything that has happened since margay.furnet.org was linked to Furnet. The time span for all of this is just under a year's time. A lot can happen in a year, therefore this is a bit lengthy. For those of you wanting to know all of the back story and events leading up to now, happy reading. It's going to take a while. This has been posted for your review, as an active member of the network, to form your own opinions on, and to voice them.
I was actually not on the admin list when the original application came in. If one of the other opers could be so kind as to e-mail it to me, I'd appreciate it. What I do have is her application withdrawal notice, which was used to get attention and to force the admins to make a decision more quickly. In quoted e-mail conversations from here on in, I will be stripping out quoted portions, PGP signatures, and other fluff to eliminate some of the clutter.
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:46:14 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Cc: [address redacted]@bigpond.net.au, [address redacted]@optusnet.com.au Subject: Withdrawal Notice: Furnet Server Application for Shire.Snowy.Org Hello All, I am writing to inform you I intend to withdrawal the application for adding a server to the furnet network. The reasons are as follows: 1. The application has been outstanding for over two months now with no response. In the meantime ocelot.furnet.org has been accepted. Throughout the course of the operation of both yiff.net and it's successor furnet.org I have put over a dozen applications for a link into the network to provide better access for Australian Furs (averaging once every 6 months). This looks to be in vain as so far all of them have been ignored including the current application. 2. I acknowledge that the current stuff have been busy over the last two months dealing with both server problems and new concepts to protect individuals whilst they are making use of the network. However it would be at least prudent to update hopeful applications whom are looking at providing additional resources to the furnet network some update over a two month period. The lack of response indicates a disinterest in accruing new servers. 3. I have other requests for use of the server I have offered to furnet; and without any knowledge of what is happening with the application I have posted I cannot in good conscience accept any new plans - as I would have no idea of how much they would impact on network and server capacity which would reduce the efficiency of an IRC server running as a potential furnet server. Whilst this has been fine so far; the lack of response from the Furnet Administration staff leads me to believe that such a server is unlikely to be required in the foreseeable future so I would instead prefer to offer the use of the resources I have available to other parties whom might prove more ready to take up the offer. Now noting reason '2' in that you have been busy; I am holding off on my withdrawal notice for a period of one (1) week. If no response (even if a request for more time which will hopefully include an ETA for the evaluation of said request) is forthcoming by this time - I will assume that the server request is defunct.
To which Aeto replied:
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 00:33:29 -0800
From: Aetobatus <[address redacted]@chameleon.net>
To: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[addres redacted]@snowy.org>,
[address redacted]@irc.furnet.org
Subject: Re: Withdrawal Notice: Furnet Server Application for
Shire.Snowy.Org
I apologize for the lack of response; I had planned to deal with this right
after FC, and, in fact, there was some discussion about the application on
the admin list around that time. Also, around the time we got ready to
start contacting you and another applicant, two other issues (one furnet
related, one not) came up, completely distracting me from the servers.
Our main concern about the server (and the reason we didn't contact you at
the same time as ocelot) was that it's unclear to us how the server, which
appears to be located in CA, can significantly help the Australian users.
When I dealt with AU systems in the past (back in my DALnet days), the
biggest bottlenecks there appeared to be in the overseas links. Has this
situation changed since then?
I do want to apologize again for these delays, on behalf of all of the
admins (in reality, I am not the only one allowed to say things :> ), since
we've all been pulled off to so many different fires over the past few
months that the "non-critical" stuff keeps getting pushed aside.
In hindsight, I wish that we had told her to go ahead and offer her services somewhere else. Looking at Aeto's response, I now wholeheartedly agree with his statements regarding the server's acutal location as opposed to the location of who it's supposed to be "helping". In retrospect I wish we would have asked for traceroutes from a few largely populated locations in Australia to her proposed server location. Instead, we took her word for it:
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 00:50:13 +1000 (EST)
From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org>
To: Aetobatus <[address redacted]@chameleon.net>
Subject: Re: Withdrawal Notice: Furnet Server Application for
Shire.Snowy.Org
That's quite ok; at least now I know I'm not wasting my time I hope ;)
The situation both has and hasn't changed. There are a lot more pipes
into Australia now which has improved things - and Shire.Snowy.org happens
to be sitting about 2 hops away from the end of one of those pipes. We
would dearly love to have an Australian Server actually in Australia but
the practicality is that no-one can afford to pay for a permanent address
which allows hosting and gives reasonable speed. So a cohosted box in the
US makes the better sense; and considering that box is sitting on about 3
major backbones - this makes it rather accessable in general. Since
writing this application I am no longer just concerned about AU furs but
would be intending on opening the server fully to all furs.
Understandable there - hopefully you will get more time shortly though?
It might sound slighly pressured; but could you give me a rough ETA on
when you can examine this application more fully? Just so I don't end up
berating you upon the subject.
After some discussion off of the mailing list, Aeto responded with:
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 21:24:55 -0800
From: Aetobatus <[address redacted]@chameleon.net>
To: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org>
Cc: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org
Subject: Re: Withdrawal Notice: Furnet Server Application for
Shire.Snowy.Org
We've decided to offer shire a conditional link for 3 months, at which time
the link will become permanent assuming there are no problems. This is
what we've decided as standard operating procedure for new links, so don't
think it's something out of the normal just for this server. :>
Please contact myself and Hurga online for details on linking in. You will
need to download our server code, via CVS:
[ ... SNIPPED ... ]
Note: The mainline code currently has untested changes, so should not be
run in production.
Thanks.
Until I started putting this timeline together, I had forgotten that we gave her a three month "probational" link period. It's kind of interesting to know that her server linked to the network in March, 2003 and she started getting noticeably involved with inter/inner-channel politics in June, 2003 - three months after her server link. It may be a coincidence, but I feel that it is worth noting.
At first, her involvements regarding inner channel workings were merely suggestions to the other admins to take a look at things, as is illustrated in this next post to the admin mailing list. Take notice in how her server hadn't even been connected yet before she mentions something about a bot in a channel that's "apparently causing problems".
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 01:18:46 +1000 (EST)
From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org>
To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org
Subject: margay.furnet.org up (stable so far too) - and query of a bot for
Hurga
Hi all,
Well margay.furnet.org seems to be working well so far - so I was wondering
if people could give it a bit of a prod and if it all seems ok then we can
look into linking it in (so far tiger.furnet.org looks the best one to link
off being the closet).
If there are any problems with it - just LMK.
Also this one is for Hurga - there is a bot called dragonbot in #feline
running on your server that apparently is causing problems. Until I get the
logs I'm have no clue what trouble it is; but I thought I might check with you
to see if it is a bot that is supposed to be on your server or not first.
(Once I get more information I'll let you know).
There were a couple of posts regarding the problem bot and the users surrounding it from other admins who had been bugged about it. The basic response was, "They're just making a stink, trying to blame Sibe, let it be for now, it's just user to user politics." Hurga had mentioned possibly setting an akill on the bot and user running it because they hadn't received permission from him to run a bot on his server. This was the stated policy on bots at that time. He thought better of it, though, and didn't.
Here's Snowpony's post in regards to this "problem". Take notice at how she interpreted policy at that time, and how it leans heavily on the side of "let users work out their own quarrels". If she had gone on, following her own statements on ideas of policy, she probably would have been a reasonable admin. Instead, she just couldn't tell people to ignore things and couldn't resist using her admin commands to "sort out problems".
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 12:36:56 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: Yappy Sly Fox <[address redacted]@thefoxden.com> Cc: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Re: AOP/SOP lists Erik also tried to get me to do stuff as soon as he found out I was an IRCop as well. He said that Hellfyre was a bot(!?!?) and then Hellfyre was Sibe. He was eluding to the same things with Bckdragon from #feline as well. I talked to Jaguar the owner of the channel and apparently he has been acting the twit for sometime. He does the same thing in #ozfurs as well so I was convinced pretty easily. Erik is becoming a rather major pest it seems across a few different channels. Response from me? I ignored most of it - the dragonbat I referred to Hurga (as you could see in a previous email) in case it was a problem (From what Hellfyre told me it is an mirc Script that he used whilst he was an AOP to enforce bans). I had to make a few assumptions on the fly here - so my apologies if the action was inappropriate. I will note down these assumptions and if they are incorrect can someone correct them for me? 1. Problems with (bots running/user connect issues/etc) on a particular server should be refereed to the site admin(s) of that server. 2. Problems with an abusive person in a channel should be refereed to that channel's founder or one of the channel's SOPs. (Whoever is not being involved in the dispute). 3. Problems involving multiple channels once getting agreement by channel founders from those channels should be noted in the admin emailing list for review. 4. Problems that directly affect the availability, security or confidentiality of the servers (ie man-in-middle attacks on the encrypted server links, DDoS/DoS or hack attempts) should be dealt with immediately and then fully detailed in a report to the admin emailing list. Where possible notify the admin of the affected servers immediately. Where possible notify the admin emailing list immediately. 5. For everything else use best judgment and then report to the admin mailing list. (Should everything go through this list? [Assumptions 1 and 2 currently don't])
This is where the rest of the admins start to show uninvolvement when it comes to discussion of policy. Nobody commented on this e-mail. I didn't answer because I had only fairly recently had my server connected to the network. It wasn't my place to confirm or deny assumptions on network policy.
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:25:09 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Two 'users' to watch out for... Hi everyone, Well we have some idiots running around trying to stir up trouble by calling everyone homosexual and animal lovers (in the non-platonic sense). Easy enough to spot by the lack of knowledge of any non capitailised letters, low IQ and bad spelling. Names they went by today were BloodyAugust and Beefeater. A sample log from #ozfurs shown. They continued on in PM to me so I kicked them from the network. 15:59:01 -!- Beefeater [Anguish@h24-65-230-50.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #Ozfurs 15:59:05 -!- mode/#ozfurs [+v Beefeater] by RallysNotHere 15:59:09 -!- BloodyAugust [IamJesus@h24-65-228-17.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #Ozfurs 15:59:14 -!- mode/#ozfurs [+v BloodyAugust] by RallysNotHere 15:59:19 <+BloodyAugust> HEY GUYZ WATZ UP?? 15:59:27 <+BloodyAugust> KEN I B A FERRY 2? 15:59:28 <+Beefeater> Hwats up dood 15:59:29 <+Codock> Me mostly 15:59:47 <+Beefeater> ?! u got a hardon?!?! 15:59:47 <+BloodyAugust> LOK I WELL HEV S3X WIT MAH KATZ 15:59:50 <+BloodyAugust> C IM A FERRY 2 15:59:52 * Codock smiles down from his tree 15:59:59 -!- mode/#ozfurs [+b *!*IamJesus@*.cg.shawcable.net] by Snowpony 15:59:59 -!- BloodyAugust was kicked from #ozfurs by Snowpony [Snowpony] 16:00:02 <+Codock> o.O 16:00:03 <+Beefeater> get the fuk down u faget! 16:00:07 <+Codock> Who that guy? 16:00:15 * Snowpony hrms to Beefeater... 16:00:25 <@Snowpony> I'd advise again that course of conversation Beefeater. 16:00:27 <+Beefeater> no u u tree huggin homo 16:00:35 -!- mode/#ozfurs [+b *!*Anguish@*.cg.shawcable.net] by Snowpony 16:00:36 -!- Beefeater was kicked from #ozfurs by Snowpony [Snowpony]
This is an example of trolling. The "bad spelling" and "low IQ", as Snowpony puts it, is just a gimmick and an act. They say the most ridiculous and absurd things to see if you're either smart enough to play along or just ignore it, or if you're dumb enough to fall for it and get all excited about how "wrong" their statements are. I find it kinda funny that Snowpony fell for it, and went as far as using a /kill before using a /ignore.
It's IRC. This kind of stuff is going to happen. She handled it properly at first, in this instance, and banned them from her channel. Banning from channel gooood, banning from network baaaad. Doing a channel kick/ban and a /ignore is a quick, "problem solved" scenario.
What happens when you ban users from the entire network for doing this kind of thing is this: They start to feel singled out by the network admins for doing what they consider to be playful, fun, and harmless. Instead of just laughing at the fact that they were banned in a channel and moving along, they now are forced to find ways of getting around a network-wide ban. This has the unfortunate side-effect of enabling them to get around a channel ban as well. A channel ban is something that they would have just laughed at and continued using IRC from their current hostmask. A network ban forces them to find abuses to get around bans so that they can get back on to do what they were on the network for in the first place - chat with their friends. Trolling channels is a side hobby, usually done out of boredom.
Some of you are under the impression of, "If you just keep /akilling them and their proxies every time you see them, they'll tire of having to search for proxies and eventually give up." Trust me, you'll tire of it before they do. They find it funny that you're being ridiculous enough to keep trying to chase them down. It only makes them want to do it more. Attention like this is what they are looking for. You are giving them what they want when you do this.
Some of you may be saying, "It's upsetting to the users' feelings, and something needs to be done about it or the upset users are going to go to another network!" If you educate them on the points I just made, and afteward they're still "emotionally hurt" by something that a total stranger has said to them just to get a reaction out of them, let them go to another network. Facts of life will follow them. They're going to run into ignorance no matter where they go. Maybe they'll come around to that fact or maybe they'll just keep attempting to run from life. It's not hurting the administrators, the network, or the other users of the network if vocal, oversensitive minorities leave the network, go somewhere else, and refuse to use the /ignore command. If someone walks up to an African American on the street, and says, "You're a fucking nigger. You and your kind suck", whether meant seriously or not, that person is most likely going to get a negative reaction. If that African American had a power to basically make the insulting person completely disappear from his own perception of existence, he'd probably use it. /ignore grants you that power on IRC. It would really not be worth his time and effort to do anything else to try to combat that kind of ignorance.
The next point usually made by folks is, "But when one of them gets /ignored or kickbanned, another one pops up to take their place." Your /ignore list or /quote silence list can hold multiple people, folks. The number of trolls is finite. Once they're all on your list, you see nothing from them and can continue to live in your blissfully peaceful existence.
This next e-mail shows where things start getting interesting and some of her tendencies to get way too eager to make judgments and attempt to solve user to user problems come out into the open. Someone from #feline posted a message stating that Sibe had taken over the channel. Strangely enough, #feline was registered in Services at that time. He got ops by someone just doing a /mode +o on him, but later somehow got Furbot to start giving him ops. The only way that this could happen is if someone who had enough access to Chanserv in the channel granted this to him or if he obtained the founder password. If I were presented with this scenario as an admin, I'd do the following things:
I'm sure some of you have this as the first thing that pops into your mind: "Wait. He never actually 'fixed' the channel and restored it to 'normal'." That's right. A channel that is registered with services should never be able to be "taken over". We wouldn't have taken the time to change the codebase and include IRCServices if that's not one of the things it takes off of our hands, management-wise. If it had been successfully taken over, shame on the channel maintainers for providing the means for it to happen. While they're learning their lesson, I'd register the temporary channel to the founder so that they have the same controls and can practice with them until the person who "took over" the other channel got bored with it and released it. This approach helps teach the channel maintainers how to successfully operate a channel and also shows them that they can't just go whining to the network admins about something that they screwed up.
Knowing that, here's how Snowpony stated she'd handle this type of situation.
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:13:34 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Re: Sibe attack in #feline OK just curious, How would have been the best way to address an attack like this when it is happening? My first reaction probably would have been to drop the aop/sop list back to known users (probably just myself for example) and then cleaned up with chanserv/furbot. Is there an easier/faster way though?
Here's how ZetaWolf would react to it, and why I hold his judgment and adminship with much higher regard than Snowpony's. At least his first reaction would be to help the users help themselves. Educating the users who have problems on how to deal with those problems is the only way to keep it from happening to those users in the future.
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:38:01 -0500 From: Zeta Wolf <[address redacted]@mchsi.com> To: Admin <[address redacted]@irc.furnet.org> Subject: Re: Sibe attack in #feline Well, as far as I seen, the problem would be solved if they do a /msg chanserv set #channel secure on. I did that on my channel and the only people that Chanserv/FurBot allows to be op'd are those on the aop/sop list and identified through nickserv. From my understanding this feature was not set to ON on #Feline and a user op'd sibe if it was on chanserv would have immediately deop'd sibe and he wouldn't have been able to overthrow the channel. What I have done is made use of #FurNet to help educate users and channel owners how to utilize the security services has enabled. same with nickserv, they can turn security on and if the nickname is not identified in 30-60 (not sure) it will force a nick change to something like "Guestsnowcloud" or something. So far, I have some very helpful furs that know services willing to hang out on #FurNet to work with folks. not sure who's channel it is, I just got the password for it and let aeto know I was using it. Anyhoo :) Thanks! ZetaWolf
The first recorded "admin involvement" for issues "centering in" #SAFurs was on June 23, 2003. Interestingly enough, the first post regarding it in specific was made by Zeta, asking for approval to Drop/Forbid the channel. Take note that Zeta didn't drop/forbid the channel and then post to the admin list about it. He asked what the other admins thought of his proposal, and waited for approval.
Here's a bit of a surprise. Snowpony actually suggested against that action in her response to Zeta. Mad props go out to her in this instance. I would have replied similarly.
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 05:36:14 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: Zeta Wolf <[address redacted]@mchsi.com> Cc: Admin <[address redacted]@irc.furnet.org> Subject: Re: #Safurs We open that door and we are admining channels. Let's deal with this like any other channel owner would and wait for them to do something.
Here's a turning point in Furnet history. Snowpony inquires how to and then is told how to issue an akill. This time, I'd call it "for a good reason". Sibe was openly threatening a DDoS. It wouldn't have been my choice of action because I know how ineffective akills are on Sibe, but nonetheless, some action should be taken, right?
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:47:13 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Re: weee.. Sibe is going to DDoS us. On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' wrote: > 14:34:47 <FbiFox> You know > 14:34:48 -!- FbiFox [gxjqszn@12-211-48-148.client.attbi.com] > 14:34:48 -!- ircname : Is he a Dog? Is he a T-Rex? > 14:34:48 -!- channels : #lil_wolfs_corner > 14:34:48 -!- server : panther.furnet.org [FurNet at furry.de] > 14:34:48 -!- : has registered this nick > 14:34:48 -!- End of WHOIS > 14:34:49 <FbiFox> Margay.furnet.org > 14:34:54 <FbiFox> is becoming a liability for me. > 14:35:06 <FbiFox> So heres what yah can do. > 14:35:11 <FbiFox> Akill me right now. > 14:35:23 <FbiFox> Or after I packet the fuck out of the network. > 14:35:28 <FbiFox> then you dont get your little oline. > 14:35:34 <FbiFox> once there, ill find your ip > 14:35:35 <FbiFox> and ddos you. > 14:35:37 <FbiFox> bye > 14:35:41 <Snowpony> Bye. Quick question - how can I do a network wide kline for 12-211-48-148.client.attbi.com?
This message was one sent after much-too-much involvement in #SAFurs. It stems from a couple of complaints that we had received from a handful of users as well as complaints from the #SAFurs channel founder, Jazzy. The complaints cited #safurs as a gathering point for trolls. Because not all of the members of #SAFurs had been witnessed trolling or had done any trolling, this accusation seems to be a bit controversial. Jazzy was complaining because people in there were raking him over the coals, in the style of #SAFurs. In the style of Jazzy, he didn't take the necessary steps to control the situation as channel founder, so he came whining to the admins. We made suggestions to him and tried to help him understand the services tools better, but it seemed to either fall on deaf ears, or forgotten quickly.
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:02:42 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Summary of Events: #safurs Good morning all gentlemen. This is a summary of events for clarification in case ramifications come out from this. Firstly a brief synopsis of #safurs. #safurs is a channels spawned originally from the Something Awful Forums; after the ex channel founder Jazzy was banned from the forums. The channel exists to provide an outlet of flaming, self trolling and politically incorrect satire. Childish in nature the channel nevertheless under suitable management would normally not pose a problem. Unfortunately Jazzy proved to not be a suitable manager of the channel. This is normally not out of the ordinary as after all channels will usually sort themselves out by people leaving if a channel is badly mismanaged - however Jazzy's case would have to be considered unique in that his gross mismanagement managed to not only affect his own channel but a multitude of channels on the Furnet network. During his "administration" the channel became a regular launching points for trolling/spamming channel takeover attacks on other channels (#zoo, #babyfurs, #foxie to name a but a small sample of targets) where upon the exploits would be broadcasted back to #safurs for amusement. The lack of channel control meant the channel was frequently taken over by anyone in the channel (including Sibe who is a semi-regular visitor specifically due to the lack of any form of control and the fact that Jazzy is easy to manipulate on many levels due to what can only be concluded as deep psychotic dependency on Internet Forum as a source of social contact). Approximately one month ago after one of these 'attacks I began to directly monitor #safurs; to slowly restrict the amount of external influence. This reduced at least the channel takeovers however with Jazzy's mismanagement holding no control on the channel at all; it was quite apparent that this was a building enclave of not only mis-intentioned delinquents (which normally wouldn't garnish more active attention) but also individuals whom were seeking deliberate disruption of services and channels for their own amusement. Sibe, Method|Loser and AnimalControl are a couple of examples but by no means are exclusive. Jazzy subsequently was spoken to in #furnet on a multitude of occasions on how to control his channel using standard tools. These first talks were in an advisory role but as the lack of action became apparent, pressure was brought to bear on the situation to make it known to Jazzy that he was directly responsible for the activity in his channel. This was seemingly ignored with only token gestures; clearing out sop/aop for a couple of hours until furs began being added back in rapid order until the lists were back to normal the next day. He was finally given an ultimatum approximately on Wednesday to control his channel or loose it. On Friday The channel was again taken over by sibe (because everyone had ops and just oped him as soon as he asked - like normal - - - this was a regular occurrence). The channel was immediately put into my control as the user "furnet" and moderation put in place. Jazzy spammed #furnet and myself on multiple occasions over the next 24 hours begging for his channel back - ignoring repeated requests to leave since he was not actually listening to anything being said: his only response was "I don't know what I did wrong!" - a fact that can be disputed by any person in an advisory role on #furnet as not being the case since it had been explained to him on multiple occasions in that channel exactly what he was doing wrong. After the final bout lasting 15 minutes: Jazzy was finally Akilled off Furnet for currently an indeterminate amount of time (at least until he cools off it that is at all possible). A channel vote was taken in #safurs for a new channel owner - and with a majority of regulars Bobby was installed as the new channel owner. Now I must apologize on not keeping the administration up to date on the actions that were happening; this was partly due to my current workload (it is the End of Financial Year over here and I am responsible for payroll). I personally disdain in having to take direction action on a channel. Whilst this may be establishing a precedent - I feel the uniqueness of the disruption of this channel warranted the action. I do accept the responsibility of my actions and will endeavor in future to fully address the administration before undertaking unique action such as has been listed here.
When this was going on, I had also been "monitoring" what was happening, and getting to know the situation as well as the people involved. My involvement was mostly out of curiosity. A lot of attention and comments had been surrounding #SAFurs for a while, and it intrigued me. I found it all somewhat entertaining, and didn't openly object too much to Snowpony's active involvement at the time. Looking back on it, I think we should have dropped involvement and told Jazzy to fend for himself after he came whining to us for the same problems time and time again. I thought akilling Jazzy was a bit harsh. Then again, I don't think I've ever set an akill. I have a reeeeaallyy long fuse. ;)
Please also note that I had not been involved with #SAFurs prior to this. I didn't know what it was, or why it was getting so much attention. After spending from June on until now with them, getting to know them on more of a personal level, and just having fun with them, I've come to realize that they're some of the most entertaining people I've ever met. It's been very intriguing to witness a mindset where almost nothing is meant to be taken or is taken seriously.
It's also intriguing to see how people, including some of the administrators, have put me into a "one of them" lumping. It's kinda weird being discriminated against simply because I've "defended the SAFurs". Now my opinions on things are instantly invalidated by some, because of my involvement with SAFurs. I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I've been the target of bigotry before. It's really interesting.
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:53:58 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Oh goodie...death threats This happened in #furnet whilst I was idle. 21:49:19 -!- Werwolf (Bill) [~s@sA13-p20.dreamscape.com] has joined #furnet 21:49:47 < Werwolf> Tell your "pal" zetawolf he's a dead fucker.. 21:49:49 -!- Werwolf [~s@sA13-p20.dreamscape.com] has left #furnet [] Does anyone else but werwolf use dreamscape.com? I'm banning him in the meantime - threatening to kill people is not what I would consider responsible behaviour.
"Not what I would consider responsible behavior". The administrators are not responsible for judging "responsible" actions for people other than themselves. I may be wrong in assuming that by "ban", she meant "akill" and not just a #FurNet channel ban. The incident was too long ago for me to remember the specifics. The point I'm making here is that she's quick to be a "judge" when the proper response is to just ignore it. In this next message, Cheetah agrees with this opinion. I wonder why he seems to be so diametrically opposed to it in recent times.
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:15:42 +0200 From: Sven Tegethoff <[address redacted]@tigress.com> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Re: Oh goodie...death threats Furthermore, I think we should stay out of trouble like that unless the guy really becomes a nuisance for a significant number of people. Intervening too early only heats things up, and I think we've seen enough immature boys' "death threats" to know that there's usually no need to panic :)
Here's another example of akill vs. ignore.
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:20:34 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: < -- name removed -- > : Banned I have put a ban in for < -- name removed -- > since he constantly harasses me without provocation (the last one yet again threatening legal action because he couldn't find the cyberstalking charges for QLD on-line hence I'm lying about there being such a thing :p). He is disrupting my time to the point I lose hours just trying to get an answer out of what the heck is bothering him. He refuses to leave me alone and berates me to no end. I am not the only person that he does this to but he seems to push the legal avenues point with me on a regular basis. I no longer have the time to chase up who is currently threatening with legal action either. FYI: Cyberstalking is covered under chapter 33A entitled "Unlawful Stalking" which includes email and includes any use of technology as per section 359B. The term "cyberstalking" is often used by journalist to cover these provisions that were inserted into the Queensland Criminal Code by Act No 18 of 1999 which was assented to on 30 April 1999. The current Criminal Code still contains these provisions and can be found at: http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/C/CriminCode_04I_030620.pdf A (rather good) analysis can be found at of the ramifications of the amendments to chapter 33A can be found here: http://www.nswscl.org.au/journal/48/Sullivan1.html
"I no longer have time to chase up who is currently threatening with legal action either", she says. If this were me, I wouldn't have taken the time in the first place. If something "illegal" is happening where we need to get involved at all, we'll be served with an official subpoena for that involvement. Otherwise, we're not responsible for it. "He is disrupting my time to the point I lose hours ..." - /ignore, not akill.
In the next message of interest, we get a notice from Snowpony that she's going to be moving her IRC daemon somewhere else, possibly to a server in the UK. Having the server in the UK would provide more efficient service to those in the UK, which is something that we didn't have. This is a Good Thing™. When she finalized her server change, though, it ended up staying in California. She never mentioned its relative "closeness" to the pipe going to Australia after the move, either. Unfortunately, it was never questioned.
Since I don't have a record of what margay's original IP was, it may still be "closer" to Australia than the other servers, network-wise, but I don't know that for sure. If I can get some traceroutes to margay as compared to tiger, panther and irc.pridelands.org from users in Australia, I'll provide them here.
So far, I've received traceroutes from two people in Australia. Want to hear something funny? Margay is the server furthest from one of them, and the trace wouldn't complete for the other (timed out toward the end). I'm pretty sure the first traceroutes came from a dial-up, so ping times should be taken with a grain of salt. However, they're still noteworthy. The second one came from a cable modem. Latency still goes up the same amount when it passes across the overseas link for all of the US servers.
[Traceroutes to Margay from Australia]
[Traceroute to Tiger from Australia]
[Traceroute to Lion from Australia]
[Traceroute to Panther from Australia]
If it isn't providing a more efficient connection to Australia now, why is it still around? Hurga's server, by far, seems like the one with the best Internet connectivity. I consistantly see short traceroutes to panther: 12 hops from a dial-up in Australia and 9 hops from lion.
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:16:58 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Request and Informational: Margay moving... < -- Parts about upkeep of www.furnet.org web site removed -- > Secondly, margay.furnet.org is likely to be moving sometime before the end of September to a new hosting provider (at this stage it is likely to be in the UK) whom should prove a lot more reliable than the current one that tends to not get around to telling me they rebooted the server to fix something until after the fact :p. I'll be able to give more details further down the track once I get them - but it will be on a higher capacity link than the current machine and is going to be separated from the rest of my servers to reduce the impact of DDOS in the future. I am personally keen on the UK hosting setup since it will give us some better geographical coverage. I am also looking into an Asia-Pacific server for hosting another IRC furnet server but at the moment so far no worthwhile leads have shown up.
Here's where #AryanFurs is first mentioned on the admin list. I'm going to start by explaining the real origin and intent behind #AryanFurs. These are the facts. This is what we know. I was there. I did the registration.
Some folks in #SAFurs had been commenting on how ridiculous it seemed that a number of little sub-group channels had popped up on Furnet, including their own channel. Someone asked what is the most ridiculous and absurd sub-group name we could come up with. A few ideas were tossed around, but then someone suggested Aryan. Everyone laughed and joined the #AryanFurs channel. To further the spirit of ridiculousness, a myriad of topics had been set which promoted white supremecy, killing jews, spreading hate and violence, etc. Anyone with half a clue could see how completely absurd that is when put into context; even if you're unaware of its humorous intent. By "put into context", I mean look at the network it's on. Look at the basis for all of the channels on the network. It's Furry. Furry, in its loosest definition is "An appreciation or fascination of anthropomorphics; animals with human-like characteristics". Where does "white supremecy" fall into an animal or anthropomorphic world? It's ridiculous.
That's the story. That's how it came about. We put it there so that we could laugh at how absurd its name and its topics were. There was no hidden meaning. There was no hate. There was no violence. Its purpose and intent was merely a creative outlet for its members to come up with the most absurd things to say and for the other members to laugh at it.
When it started getting attention from the user-base of Furnet as well as the administrative staff as if it were serious, it was all the more amusing. We had trouble grasping the fact that people were that gullible. In the spirit of the channel, we continued to post things that we deemed appropriate for the channel's absurdity, and laugh at how people took it seriously, even after it had been explained to those people that it was nothing but a joke. There were some people who just weren't getting it, and that was hilarious to us. Is that wrong? Did it warrant this response:
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 04:31:47 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: #aryanfurs Hello all, I've disabled #aryanfurs. We have had numerous complaints about the content of their topics (which over the last week have contained anti-gay-black-jewish content and promote white supremacy). After three warnings where I told them to clean up the topic and try to at least keep it somewhat PC I had locked down the channel completely; set and auto kick for everyone and made it so that no-one can get ops since for some reason I can't use the 'forbid' command itself. I'm all for freedom of expression; but this place was drawing very bad comments and inciting racial hatred, not to mention upsetting a growing number of individuals. If they can't even be polite enough to keep a civil topic channel then it was obviously only set up to incite discord.
Who is Snowpony to make a judgment like that? "This place was ... inciting racial hatred ... obviously only set up to incite discord" Oh, "obviously", eh? The fact is, it was "only set up" to incite laughter. There was no hate involved, and "discord" is in the eye of the beholder. She may have formed an opinion that it was there for her stated reasons, but she wasn't the one who started the channel and wasn't the one in on the discussion when it was created.
Here is the follow-up thread on this:
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 23:53:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott 'Simba' G <[address redacted]@pridelands.org>
To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org
Subject: Re: #aryanfurs
To me, this action should never have been taken, for a few
reasons. Number one huge reason: "Opers don't govern content of
individual channels"... or do we? This isn't the first time that action
like this has been taken, and it seems to me that we should probably set
up some guidelines for what opers get involved in and what they don't. In
my opinion, it was way out of line.
Regardless of the content of the topic, who are we to say what gets
put in them unless we're an operator for that channel? I'm under the
opinion that if someone comes to us and says, "The topic of this channel
offends me. Do something about it." The proper response should be, "If
you don't like the topic of a channel, don't join the channel." I don't
like the general topic and content of #Babyfurs. Do we drop and forbid
that channel, too?
I confronted Snowpony about this decision earlier, and was basically
told that her decision falls under two of the posted MOTD rules: "No
harassment" and "No illegal activity". If you look up "harassment" in the
dictionary, you get "a: EXHAUST, FATIGUE", "b: to annoy persistently" "2:
to worry and impede by repeated raids". In a loose sort of sense, you can
say that posting an "annoying topic" can be "persistently annoying", but
it's up to the person being "annoyed" to be mature enough about it to
ignore it and not go there. It's not like the denizens of the channel are
directly forcing them to look at the topic and be a part of it, an action
which more accuratly describes the term "harassment". On the "illegal
activity" issue, you are hitting a really gray area. Technically
speaking, in some (most) countries, committing "hate crimes" is most
definitely illegal. Free speech, however, is something that is promoted
in the US, and a majority of our servers are located on US soil. "hate
crimes" are usually defined by damage to property or person as a result of
bigoted actions. Posting a string of characters in the topic of a channel
is hardly a crime, regardless of the order of those characters. It's
completely harmless, and if you're offended by it, you have a right to not
participate. Pedophilia is globally considered a crime. I think
#Babyfurs promotes pedophilia. Going under these pretenses, dropping,
forbidding, and taking other administrative action against that channel is
also warranted.
Now, when it comes down to it, the topics posted were actually
satirical and formed in parody. None of the people in the channel are
actually racist or hateful. They're Something Awful goons. If you're
familiar at all with Something Awful, it's much easier to understand, but
basically, they just post things to TRY to incite drama from others.
They'll try hitting every button they can in order to get a reaction out
of people. It's all done in jest, and when all is said and done, nobody
is truly hurt. If they are, they have some mental issues to work out.
As we all well know, the furry fandom is full of rumormills,
dramawhores, and general "fanatic" personalities. It's very EASY to get a
rise out of the general "furry" public, because they seem to be so riddled
with fanatical feelings. Goons will poke until they get a reaction. We
all found this out when they started trolling channels. I do agree that
trolling is direct harassment, and is not to be tolerated, but a topic
that they set in their own channel? C'mon. You have to draw the line
somewhere. At least their activity is done in playful jest, and isn't
really meant to promote hate. The folks in #Babyfurs truly DO have
infatuation with infantilism.
I've been using #Babyfurs as a parallel here, and truly, I'm using
them more as a whipping boy or scapegoat than anything. I'm just using it
to help prove a point. Realistically, the people in #Babyfurs are most
likely not truly molesting children or doing anything to harm any real
living being. Bringing on a parallel, neither are the folks in #Aryanfurs
or #SAFurs, though.
I didn't get a log of the first "warnings", if they happened, but
here's a log from when the channel was actually dropped and forbidden:
[23:01] *** Thylac is now known as Stormfront
[23:01] *** Stormfront changes topic to '____+____ ALL HAIL
OUR FEARLESS WHITEFURRED LEADER! ADOLF HITLER! HEIL HITLER!
www.stormfront.org WHITE POWER ____+____'
[23:01] *** Stormfront is now known as Thylac
[13:35] *** Snowpony (Snowpony@FurNet) has joined #aryanfurs
[13:35] *** Snowpony changes topic to ' '
[13:36] <Snowpony> Okay last warning on the topic. If I find anything
like that again; I'll be closing this channel.
[13:42] <Snowpony> On seconds thoughts; you lot obviously aren't listening
to me.. byebye channel.
[13:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +rt
[13:46] *** ChanServ sets mode: +imsR
[13:47] *** You were kicked by ChanServ (Requested (Snowpony))
That could have been handled a little more professionaly, if it had
to be handled at all, don't you think? I'm still under the opinion that
action need not to be taken, but if was needed and warranted, getting no
response from a mostly idle channel after a warning and deciding to ban
everyone from using it 6 minutes later with a "byebye channel" tagline is
a bit over the top.
Finally, the last point that was made to me was that "promoting
racism" is illegal in Australia, where Snowpony is from. It's most likely
illegal in the US, too, but I'm sure it would have fallen under some sort
of parody leniency or freedom of speech clause, if legal action had been
taken. Now, regarding Australian laws governing what is
right/wrong/legal/illegal on Furnet is a new point entirely. Whose laws
do we follow when enforcing the "no illegal activities" policy?
Personally, I think Australia's laws are a bit too strict if they make the
administrators of a server responsible for user content. I don't
particularly care to fall under such laws, especially if it means we
become responsible for governing the censorship of Internet traffic. If
that's the case, I vote for O: Line revocation and delinking of the margay
server, or I can just pull my server and wash my hands of it. I don't
want to be an administrative part of censorship.
In conclusion, and the real reason I'm even writing this e-mail for
everyone to see is that I think it would be prudent to either find some
other IRC network oper guidelines to follow, or create our
own. Typically, the prime directive of IRC opers is to never meddle in
the political (or otherwise) affairs of channels. If someone complains
about the content of a channel, they're told to turn the other cheek and
not participate in the channel.
A link to a fairly good oper guide can be found here:
http://www.ircstorm.net/policies/operguide.html
Here's a snippet from ircstorm's "Policies" page, which can be found
at http://ircstorm.net/policies/ :
IRC is a non-moderated transport medium. Therefore, IRCstorm is
not responsible for any and all activities that may take place.
Additionally, IRCstorm does not become involved with internal
channel related politics. Channel disputes and incidents will
be resolved between the channels. We will only attempt to act
as mediators as a last resort.
I'm not saying that we should take another IRC network's policies and
make them our own. I just found this one doing a quick search on Google,
and it seems to be a very clear-cut IRC policy page. Using it as a basis
might not be a bad idea.
Thoughts? Comments? Disputes? Suggestions? Constructive
critisizm? Cake? Doughnuts? Apple juice? Still reading? You're cool.
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:32:59 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: Scott 'Simba' G <[address redacted]@pridelands.org> Cc: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Re: #aryanfurs + REQUEST On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Scott 'Simba' G wrote: [ Rant of Simba's Deleted] 1. I personally don't care what happens in a channel as long as it stays in a channel. 2. Topics are public and network wide. 3. There was no mention in any of the topics that #aryanfurs has posted over the last week that they are meant to be satirical in nature. They are offensive and as Simba said himself designed to illicit a response. 4. We don't involve ourselves in channel politics. We do however should involve ourselves in things that extend beyond a channel. The TOPIC of a channel which is viewable everywhere affects more than just what happens within the channel. 5. Simba said it himself; this is the same bunch of furs who used #safurs. Can I be blunt: they don't have a good track record. They are hear it seems to get a laugh out of inciting reactions from anyone they can - and they have no qualms in how they do it. 6. Promoting Racism or any other form of religious, gender and sexual discrimination is a crime in Australia. Excuse me if I would rather not have that sort of illegal activity blatantly happening in the /LISTs of furnet - right in the public eye. 7. They were asked on multiple occasions to keep their topic clean/PC. They didn't. 8. My 'unprofessional response' is mainly due to the fact that I've had quite enough of dealing with people who do not possess the common decency to even adhere to simple requests. Not only that but they are #safurs goons as Simba so nicely put it - this is from a bunch of idiots who spend most of their day calling each other rather in-appropriate things. If they can't respect one another and they certainly don't respect me from what they have previously said to and about me... why do I need to keep being polite to them? Especially since they obviously don't have the same sense of ethics, morals or common decency as a normal person would. At least I didn't go with my gut feeling, calling them all a bunch of fuckwits and hate mongers. Even if it is correct. 9. We have enough problems with furs without having some channel set up specially to get people upset. I've received at least a couple of comments a day so far on the topics in #aryanfurs and the number was only set to increase. 10. I'd like to think of Furnet as a forum for open exchange of ideas and concepts. But it is also fair to expect that these ideas and concepts can at least be presented in an in-offensive manner. REQUEST I'd also like to add a request to this. Furnet is used by people of all ages; from 8 through to 80. I know I'd feel more happier letting my sister or friend's children on Furnet if we could at least keep the public information PG-15 and free of blatantly illegal material. We also do not have any solid policy. I maintain a list of general rules on margay.furnet.org's MOTD (which Simba has also copied for use on ocelot). If it is suitable I'd like for this list to be a more global thing if everyone agrees (or if we can work out a suitable compromise of policy guidelines). If we do get agreement on at least some form of appropriateness on channel topics; I'd suggest adding a line paragraph such as: "Furnet is used by people of all ages. TOPICs should be kept clean, appropriate for all ages and note if then channel contains mature content."
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 00:36:50 -0500 From: Zeta Wolf <[address redacted]@mchsi.com> To: Admin <[address redacted]@irc.furnet.org> Subject: Re: #aryanfurs In response to both Simba, and Snowpony's letters, I'd like comment on the situation. I can't remember who it was that wanted to register the #AyranFurs and was asked if *I* thought it was a good idea to register that channel since it was controversial , I told the person that I personally would not bother registering that channel and most likely someone would object to it being registered but they were free to send in the request and I'd process it.. the request never came through that I seen. I feel that Snowponys actions were justified if she did ask them to change the topic for these reasons. I'd like to think that FurNet is a Open minded forum but not so open minded we loose our minds in the process, I have to agree that such channels as this would defiantly draw in the wrong crowd and promote hassle for many of out other channels. I also feel that it would also be a breeding ground for trolls and the like.. much like #safurs used to be. I also understand that we do not interfere with the way channels are operated and moderated, however sevearly offensive topics and channels.. we should reserve the right to revoke these channels if they are not governed accordingly, I do agree that A topic.. even if it is ment in jest..if it is a hate crime.. or bigoted or the as administration we should reserve the right to ask channels to change it to something less offensive..as Snowpony pointed out, Topics are viewable from outside the channel. I know many new users come on to FurNet and first thing they do is look at the channel listing and topic headliners. I don't think we need to have a guildline for something that should be common sense..okay.. the topic is extremely offensive to many on the network and if we get complaints about it we should reserve the right to ask them to change it. I do not think anyone in administration will abuse these rights they will be used properly. My personal opinion is that this channel was made to be the center of trouble. I have not seen anything as of yet from this channel other than some offensive Topics, but I think that She was right to ask them to change the topic to something less blaintly offensive or she would change it and if they continued to put these types of topics up then yes. the channel should be revoked. And using #babyfurs as a example of being a forum of pedophiles is not entirely right.. these are people that are adults "pretending to be babyfurs" they all know that they are adults and are not promoting child abuse or passing illegal pictures and the like around. I do understand why that channel was used as a example because alot of people CAN perceive that as a pedophile channel. Just my opinions here :) But yeah.. I think she did the right thing on asking them to keep the topic somewhat reasonable...and when they refused to comply she took the action necessary to preserve the image of FurNet and those who support and maintain the network.
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:53:39 +1000 (EST)
From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org>
To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org
Subject: Conscenus on what is and isn't allowed in topics
I would like to have a concensus that only PG-13 topics are allowed on furnet;
these should be clean of any form of discrimination and should note if the
channel contains content not suitable for those under 18. This has been
somewhat an unwritten guideline up until now; however certain individuals are
deciding to push for a more formal arrangement as can be seen below.
11:43:49-!- Snowpony [Snowpony@FurNet] has joined #aryan-furs
11:43:49-!- Topic for #aryan-furs: ____+____ ALL HAIL OUR FEARLESS WHITEFURRED
LEADER! ADOLF HITLER! HEIL HITLER! www.stormfront.org WHITE POWER
____+____
11:43:49>> OpenURL 4
11:43:49-!- Topic set by Nebulous [] [Tue Aug 26 09:48:08 2003]
11:43:49>> OpenURL 4
11:43:49[Users #aryan-furs]
11:43:49[@Nebulous] [+Aotommo] [ Snowpony]
11:43:49-!- Irssi: #aryan-furs: Total of 3 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices,
1 normal]
11:43:49-!- Channel #aryan-furs created Tue Aug 26 08:00:22 2003
11:43:51-!- Irssi: Join to #aryan-furs was synced in 2 secs
11:43:55-!- LexCoyote (LexCoyote) [FoxYote@ACC29C0A.ipt.aol.com] has joined
#aryan-furs
11:44:02-!- LexCoyote [FoxYote@ACC29C0A.ipt.aol.com] has left #aryan-furs []
11:44:27< Snowpony> Hrm.
11:44:48< Snowpony> The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of
All Forms of Racial Discrimination) defines racism as follows:
11:44:52< Snowpony> .Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference
based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin
which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the
recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human
rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic,
social, cultural, or any other field of public life..
11:45:08<@Nebulous> Uh-huh
11:45:13< Snowpony> So...
11:45:28< Snowpony> You might want to remove the reference to WHITE POWER in
the topic.
11:45:37<@Nebulous> Psheah
11:45:42<@Nebulous> Or I might not.
11:46:51< Snowpony> Why not?
11:47:05-!- Foxen[a] (Foxen Cetra) [~foxen@ool-18bf0d99.dyn.optonline.net] has
joined #aryan-furs
11:47:13<@Nebulous> 'cause I'm so racist I can't see straight. OMG
11:47:19< Snowpony> Im just trying to make sure the topic is clean.
11:47:20<@Nebulous> Need to prove my point and all.
11:47:35< Foxen[a]> :D
11:48:15< Snowpony> Prove your point about what?
11:49:30-!- Foxen[a] [~foxen@ool-18bf0d99.dyn.optonline.net] has left
#aryan-furs []
11:49:32-!- Foxen[a] (Foxen Cetra) [~foxen@ool-18bf0d99.dyn.optonline.net] has
joined #aryan-furs
11:49:39-!- Foxen[a] is now known as Foxen
11:50:17<@Nebulous> My arrangement of ASCII characters can't possibly assure
you that I'm actually racist.
11:50:35<@Nebulous> Free arrangement of ASCII characters!
11:51:39< Snowpony> Are you deliberately trying to make the administration of
this network more difficult? It's a simple request to try to
keep the topics of Furnet clean and PG-13. I don't care what you
talk about in here; but we have a duty of care to try and keep the
channel clear of problems..
11:51:53<@Nebulous> We have no duty of that.
11:51:57<@Nebulous> NONE.
11:52:23< Snowpony> I see.
11:52:24<@Nebulous> When you find me some written doctrine which states, that
I'll be glad to help you in your quest.
11:52:35< Snowpony> Fair enough.
11:52:42<@Nebulous> And it has to be agreed upon.
11:52:50<@Nebulous> Quorum and all that.
11:53:16<@Nebulous> The lack of response that I got from the other admins
about this particular incident is what sickened me.
11:53:45-!- Snowpony [Snowpony@FurNet] has left #aryan-furs []
Footnote: Nebulous is Simba
There were no comments on the admin list about this subject after this post, which was made on September 3rd, 2003. The next post made in regards to #SAFurs or #AryanFurs wasn't made until October 9th, 2003 - one month later. It was made by (...guess who...) Snowpony. I point this out because it seems like the other admins simply don't care. When I see active uninvolvement from the rest of the team, I'm left to assume that involvement isn't necessary.
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:38:12 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: LJuanBobo banned for a week. Hello all, Just banned LJaunBobo for a week; primarily for interfering with some monitoring I was doing in #safurs again (which was actually due to complaints about LJuanBobo and Promodros anyways). Logs attached. I didn't bother pursuing Raemuz because I didn't want to be havng to monitor two people when the main problem for the past week has been LJuanBobo and friend. [ Attached log 1 - ljuanbobo.2003-10-09.log] [ Attached log 2 - safurs20030621.log.txt]
The interesting part of that last e-mail was the submitted logs. The ljuanbobo log is dated October 9, 2003, while the #safurs log is dated June 21, 2003. If you didn't go and read the logs, just taking the fact that the logs were so far apart in date seemed a bit fishy. If you do take the time to read the #safurs log, you don't find anything about why LJuanBobo was akilled, proof of his trolling #Foxie, or examples of how he was "interfering" with Snowpony's "monitoring".
Not that trolling is really a valid use of the akill command; I used to think that it was a valid use, but then I reconsidered it after I witnessed the results of it a few times. I've explained these results already.
This next message is another example of how intolerant Snowpony had become when it came to #SAFurs.
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:41:45 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: #safurs bans Note to all, Im now banning anyone who causes trouble and is an #safurs regular permanently. If they want to get back on I have told them to email the admin list explaining why they should. AnimalControl, Pico and another were doing a channel takeover in #laff and have been banned.
Here, Snowpony is admitting that by simply existing in #SAFurs, someone is going to be given less consideration when someone questions anything that they do. This is showing breakdown in Snowpony's ability to distance her emotions concerning a specific group of people while performing administrative diligence. The people who were akilled during this show of discrimination were Pico, AnimalControl, and Sulaco.
Keep in mind that #laff is a registered channel. It can't be successfully "taken over" unless someone with access to that channel in services grants a level of access too high to someone untrustworthy. If this access was not granted, and someone sets a few unwanted channel modes, trustworthy people with access to Chanserv can easily reverse those modes. Services was installed to enable the users to be self sufficient. As I mentioned earlier, educating the users in proper channel management is the only way to deal with takeovers successfully, if you're going to involve yourself at all. It's IRC. The type of activity in the above log file is part and parcel.
One of the notable things about this particular situation is the fact that AgVulpine is the channel founder for #laff. Up until sometime around the events in this log file, he was an active participant and member of #SAFurs. He ended up strongly siding with Snowpony after this incident. He was not the one to report it to Snowpony and ask for her "help", but he wasn't against the involvement that she had. Ever since then, he's been very bitter toward the #SAFurs.
I've since spoken to the person who was responsible for bringing it to Snowpony's attention. He has expressed that he agrees with my take on it and that the akills were a bit much. He was just looking for extra help because he wasn't familiar with Chanserv commands at the time. Instead of helping him with Chanserv, she just did everything herself. Granted, my method takes longer the first time, but eliminates my need or the need of any other oper to get involved at all in the future.
After reviewing the log, and disagreeing with Snowpony's actions, I removed Pico's akill since she wasn't the one doing the "takeover" mode changes.
Here was my response to her actions, for the record:
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 19:51:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott 'Simba' G <[address redacted]@pridelands.org>
To: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org
Subject: Re: #safurs bans
Wait... AgVulpine, the owner of the #LAFF channel and also a regular
on #SAFurs gave them ops because he's running a script to auto-op
everyone. It's a REGISTERED channel. Any registered channel can't truly
be "taken over" unless it's really badly managed. Did I mention that the
owner of #LAFF is a regular on #SAfurs?
IRC Services and channel registrations were implemented so that we
wouldn't have to deal with this petty bullpucky. Why are you even getting
involved?
Correct scenario:
<UserFromTaken-overChannel> "Waaahh, some baddies took over my
channel! Waaahh!"
<FurnetOper> "Um, idiots. Use Chanserv to take it back and don't op
people you don't know. That is all."
Incorrect scenario:
<UserFromTaken-overChannel> "Waaahh, some baddies took over my
channel! Waaahh!"
<FurnetOper> "OMG I SHOULD INTARFEER WITH CHANNEL ISSUES AND PERMA-BAN
EVERYONE WHO OPOSSES MY WRATH AND POWER!"
Yeah. Bad, bad form there, Snowpony; yet again.
Here, we have an example of how Snowpony began following people from #SAFurs into other channels to try to "sort out the mess" before anyone complained about it. Ippy's response, as channel founder, deserves the most notoriety. She didn't approve of Snowpony's actions.
[Log of #VCL during this intrusion]
As you can see, she took action before anyone was complaining, and then tried to justify her actions in #Furnet. Luckily, she didn't set any akills and only kickbanned people from the channel. If I had even somehow remotely found myself in this scenario, I would have checked the general mood of the channel regulars. If they seemed at all uneasy about what was going on, I'd ask in channel if anyone disapproved of me helping to remove disruptive people. If I got enough of a positive response from those who were in the aop/sop/access lists, I'd step in and make suggestions to the ops on how to remove the troublemakers from the channel. Taking action, then having to explain it later is very, very poor opering. You end up with a "who asked you?" kind of response. Unfortunately, we find Snowpony to have a tendency to do this type of thing on more than one occasion. This is the only one that I have a log of, though.
Here's another instance where a complete lack of sensibility and overzealousness is demonstrated by Snowpony. She actually wrote and runs a script that will set a permanent Akill on someone for using certain nicknames or variations of them. "Sibe" being the first, if anyone had used "siberian" in their nickname, they'd be akilled. A demonstration of the sheer stupidity of this script was made during Further Confusion. Someone who was using IRC from the net room at the hotel joined a channel that Snowpony was in with the nickname, "everyonelovesibe". This got either the entire or a large portion of the netroom for Further Confusion banned from Furnet. The chairman of Further Confusion this year was Aeto. I can't imagine how embarrassing that was for him. Here are example log snippets of signoffs due to this script.
-:- SignOff Snowpony: #Furnet,#Furry,#opm (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used snowpony!~snowpony@202-9-63-72.cdsl.attech.net.au))
-:- SignOff SnowponySucks: #Furnet,#SAFurs (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used snowponysucks!~kangaroo@68-76-246-242.ded.ameritech.net))
-:- SignOff SnowponySucks: #Furnet,#SAFurs (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used snowponysucks!~socialism@host01.hopster.vivi2.kapper.net))
-:- SignOff SnowponySucks: #Furry,#SAFurs (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used snowponysucks!j@tnt13a-116.chcg3.il.corecomm.net))
-:- SignOff Scary_SIBE: #Furry (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used siberian!harik@66.162.30.226))
-:- SignOff SleepyLilSibe: #Furry,#safurs (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used sleepylilsibe!hidden-use@163.21.47.220))
-:- SignOff Sibbe: #Furry,#safurs (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used Sibbe!~YoteFace@user130.esconett.org))
-:- SignOff SiberianDingo: #Furry (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used siberiandingo!~sdingo@65.80.172.213))
-:- SignOff Siberia: #safurs (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used siberia!guardian@snowponysucks.ameracan.com))
-:- SignOff `Sibe`: #Furry,#safurs (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used `sibe`!~yiffywolf@12.27.246.247))
< -- These are the ones which happened at FC -- >
* AshtonLoveSibe (~chatzilla@12.22.55.8) Quit (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used ashtonlovesibe!~chatzilla@12.22.55.8))
* Chance (~chatzilla@12.22.55.8) Quit (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used ashtonlovesibe!~chatzilla@12.22.55.8))
* ippy (~chatzilla@12.22.55.8) Quit (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used ashtonlovesibe!~chatzilla@12.22.55.8))
* ChocoMay (~chatzilla@12.22.55.8) Quit (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used ashtonlovesibe!~chatzilla@12.22.55.8))
* Marthaen (~Marthaen@12.22.55.8) Quit (Autokilled:
Nick/User Ban (Used ashtonlovesibe!~chatzilla@12.22.55.8))
Yes, folks, she even autokilled herself with that script. Apparently you're not allowed to oppose her and demonstrate that by using "SnowponySucks" as a nickname on the network.
After being targeted by and witnessing a lot of Snowpony's horrible opering skills, Pico logged into Furnet with "snowpony" as part of her ident. Snowpony didn't like this and tried to akill Pico under the guise of "Impersonating an oper". Now, everyone knows that the opers all come from "@FurNet", excepting the ones using vanity domains. Either way, Furnet opers have quite distinctive hostmasks. Unfortunately for Snowpony, in her feat of further overzealousness, she set an akill for *snowpony@*. Well, it just so happened that [snowpony@FurNet] matched that mask. *poof*
-:- SignOff Snowpony: #Furnet,#Furry,#SAFurs (Autokilled: Impersonating an
IRCOP)
[furnet] *** Global -- from OperServ: Snowpony added an AKILL for *snowpony@*
(does not expire)
The people in #SAFurs had a field day with that one
This is just another example of how an akill was used instead of a channel ban.
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:46:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan Potter <[address redacted]@yahoo.com>
To: [address redacted]@furnet.org, [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org, [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org
Subject: *** Autokilled for Harrassing an IRCOP is bad m'kay?
I was akilled for saying that I hated Snowpony. While a bit extreme of a
measure in my opinion, I can respect that you feel a certain amount of
order is required to run a server. However, it has been quite a while. Any
chance of me being unakilled?
Connecting to irc.furnet.org:6667
Connected!
*** Looking up your hostname...
*** Checking Ident
Ping? Pong!
*** Found your hostname
*** No Ident response
You have been Autokilled.
*** You are not welcome on this network.
*** Autokilled for Harrassing an IRCOP is bad m'kay? (2003/12/10 19.16)
*** Your hostmask is hindenburg!~hindenbur@h000a27aeb08c.ne.client2.attbi.com
*** For more information, please mail [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org
and include everything shownhere.
ERROR Closing Link: 0.0.0.0 (Harrassing an IRCOP is bad m'kay?
(2003/12/10 19.16))
Disconnected
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:35:18 +1000 (EST) From: Snowy Angelique Maslov aka 'Snowpony' <[address redacted]@snowy.org> To: Nathan Potter <[address redacted]@yahoo.com> Cc: [address redacted]@irc.furnet.org Subject: Re: *** Autokilled for Harrassing an IRCOP is bad m'kay? The user in question here is Tranquility, an #safurs regular. They have been banned for 1 month which should be up around the middle of next month. The reason why they were banned was due to the fact they were harassing people in #raisedtailscafé. Tranquility then decided to further harass myself directly whilst I was trying to sort out the mess. He was removed and order was restored successfully to the channel. Tranquility, I would suggest in the future you keep your comments to yourself; show a little respect the people around you and do not troll other channels. As the rest of #safurs have been warned; we will ban anyone who causes trouble and is in #safurs regularly permanently from now on.
The above example shows yet another unwarranted over-involvement. If the users of #raisedtailscafé indeed wanted Tranquility removed from the channel, the simple solution would have been to instruct them to use the akick function of services and/or the kickban function of IRC. "Tranquility then decided to further harass myself ..." could have been solved by /ignore and would have been preemptively solved if Snowpony had not involved herself directly with channel management to begin with. Notice how she says, "... order was restored successfully to the channel". Her responsibility is to restore order to the network, not a channel. It's disheartening to see an oper falling into channel management so often.
The rest of the contents of the admin list regarding #aryanfurs can be found in this log. The entirety of the discussion that was held between the admins on the mailing list is included here. If anything was discussed outside of the list, I was unaware of it because I wasn't included in the discussion.
Shortly after this discussion happened on the admin mailing list, a similar discussion happened on the users mailing list. It subsided about three days later after I explained the only ways we have to successfully deal with it, much in the same manner that I have described throughout this document. After a few days of discussion, the original plaintiff (Ashen) withdrew just about everything that he said about the subject and conceeded my points. I don't know why Snowpony had such a hard time with it and Ashen didn't.
Now, after all of this abuse of power that Snowpony has exercised and my ability to successfully appease complaining users is demonstrated, a very shocking event happens. I'm the one who gets booted from the admin team, mailing list, and has his server de-linked. There are (were) 9 opers on the admin team. 4 of them all talked behind everyone else's back, instigated by Cheetah, to have me delinked and removed on the account of "instability", "betrayal of trust", and I "was being a madman". When I talked to ZetaWolf, Frysco, and Yappyfox about the delink, none of them knew about it until it happened. There was no prior discussion on the admin list. There was no prior discussion in private between anyone other than Hurga, Snowpony, Aeto, and Cheetah. Apparently, they don't favor diplomacy over fascism.
I even found out later that Aeto deferred judgment to Snowpony, Hurga, and Cheetah because they decided to have this private discussion during Further Confusion and Aeto was chairman that year. He didn't have time to deal with it, so the three of them conferred to make the decision themselves.
It is my hope that, by understanding all of the events listed above which led to this, you'd realize how petty that was.
I had just physically moved the server to a better location with better redundancy. I'm going to go a little bit out on a limb here and also say that after I made those changes, my server was then the most potentially stable and well-placed server on Furnet. I made some routing adjustments that put it only nine hops from Panther in Germany. This would make it an ideal hub server, being so close to the German server, network-wise (less points of failure).
Justifiably, I was pretty pissed about this part. Here's what it said to me (some of it is sarcasm):
[My communication to the admin list after my removal and the (few) responses that I received]
At last, we come to the event which prompted me to put this timeline together for everyone to see and to make comment. This was the proverbial "last straw", so to speak. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of causing a storm of netsplits for about 10 minutes by abusing oper commands that I still had access to. I was never removed from the O: lines on tiger during my removal. This was not "overlooked", as some of the other admins knew about it. I refrained from use of that access until a couple weeks after the delink. Never have I seen an open oper abuse so welcomed by a large portion of the user base, though. In a sense, I was still doing what the users wanted. The admins had much to say about it, but the rest of the users were applauding. Here are the logs of what happened.
[The log
from Harik's point of view]
[A more raw form of the log, from
my point of view] - I'll try to clean this up later.
In case you didn't feel like sifting through all of those logs, here is a summary of what happened:
We are now caught up to the present. Aeto has "temporarily" removed Snowpony's access to services, but has allowed her to keep her server connected and have an O: line, so far. Personally, I don't think this is enough action. I've provided this factual evidence for your review and for you to form your opinion on what the policies should be and what else should be done. Here's what I'd like to see happen:
This article was not meant to slander or drag anyone's name through the mud. Snowpony, as a person, probably is well-mannered, has a good sense of morality, and is lovable. Her choices as an administrator, however, are either inexperienced or just not thought through enough to consider the possible consequences of her actions. She makes a bad administrator, not a bad person.
Post your opinions to the FurNet users' mailing list. If you are not on the mailing list, instructions for sign-up are at http://www.furnet.org/ You need to be subscribed to the list in order to post to it. Be sure to include your registered nickname in your e-mail.
If you think I'm right and my goals are valid as well as helpful to the network as a whole, tell them that. If you think I'm full of shit, tell them that. I don't expect anyone to agree, wholeheartedly with everything that I have to say. You wouldn't be showing your ability to think on your own if you did that. Whatever it is, post your full opinions on the matters at hand to the mailing lists. This needs to be heard if anything is to be done about it. Constructive criticism and public opinion is all that I'm looking for. If you could CC my address as well ( furnetsituation@sce.pridelands.org ), I'd like to see what people have to say about it.
If you ask any person on this list about their thoughts on the situation, they will express that they cast a vote to remove margay.furnet.org from Furnet and that it is in the best interest of the network.
creature Tet Yakko Karna DevinFox AshMCairo Vinci/Trixi Terrulen Steve Beanie Harik Raini Sulaco Sheejan Dogz Loiosh Loxley bobby Jazzy Pico Simba Logarth Skye Dracolin Selkie NightHawke Critter Nathaniel Kaliak LJuanBobo Doctor_Nick Aotommo Nicoya blueroo ShadowPaw DustyFox nothingkat Jahntassa Tevildo Aaron esche W_DraGon Chiffy Ash-Fox weasel Tranquility Terrykatt AcidWolf Saurian javachickn locobunny BrownLeopard KillFrenzy Ippy ApresVoop Alex-Wolf EmeraldFX skippyfox Kazin ChrisDragon Rainbow_Roo AlohaWolf Sigard
AgVulpine Snowpony Cheetah (?) Hurga (?) QtPlatypus (David Formosa on the users' list) Raschid Ozone
Thank you so much for taking the time to review this article.
Sincerely,
Scott 'Simba' G - furnetsituation@sce.pridelands.org
Much has happened since this article was written and finished in the beginning of March. Getting margay to split is probably not even a helpful objective any more. I've done the next best thing and founded a new network called AnthroChat to give people a choice. People can choose Furnet if they like fascism and people can choose AnthroChat if they like the laid-back, fun, hands-off approach.
The things that happened included:
User has been banned from
FurNet (you have been warned about being a moron.)